Curse

TideSwayer · Jun 04, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Destruction of Protective Spirit as a farming tool is inevitable

One of these balance updates is going to bring the destruction of Protective Spirit as a farming tool. Let's face it - it's at the center of most farming builds nowadays (especially hard mode builds). Bots abuse it. Hell, even the abuse of it by the casual farmer is bad for the economy as a whole.

Take a look at the Protective Spirit skill description and tell me it wasn't originally intended to handle burst damage only, and not be kept up indefinitely like it can be now. It has a 5 sec recharge for god's sakes! It can be kept up indefinitely even at 0 Protection Prayers! It can still keep it's PvP usefulness with a larger recharge time and/or some sort of max health qualifier or something added into it. Bump that sucker up to 45 sec or 60 sec recharge time.

Sooner or later ANet is really going to see the light and realize that the tool to stopping the bots is to stop the actual tool of the bots. Protective Spirit may not get the nerf hammer this time around (ie. with the forthcoming balance update), but you have to see the eventual writing on the wall for this skill. It's inevitable.

Anyone disagree?

Engel the Fallen · Jun 04, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Nerf Prot Spirit and bots will just run another build.

ANET needs to stop balancing this game for the bots, and start thinking of the humans who play it.

As for prot spirit 50 to 40 damage per second does not make it godly. The problem is 55 builds. If anything should be changed it should be the way 55 builds work in general, not skills that PvP users regularly use, let alone their main spike defense.

Dr Strangelove · Jun 04, 2007, 07:52 AM // 07:52

If they really wanted to nerf the 55 monk, they would have done it a long, long, long time ago. Anyway, killing prot spirit will make both PvE farmers and PvP players who rely on it very, very mad. It's really a no-win situation. Anyway, like engel said, there's many more farming builds out there than 55's. I believe bots just use that one because it was really the first good mass farming build to come about.

Clord · Jun 04, 2007, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

Nerf Prot Spirit and bots will just run another build.

ANET needs to stop balancing this game for the bots, and start thinking of the humans who play it.

Half true. They don't just do simple solutions like remove ability to follow NPC things like standing signs in towns. With still keeping ability to follow Ally NPC guys during missions etc.

TideSwayer · Jun 04, 2007, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Yes, the bots can run another build, but is any build as easy and safe as a 55/105 Protective Spirit-based build? With other builds there are usually random factors you have to take into account when farming, such as different spawns and timing. 55/105 builds are used by the bots because it's too "by the book". Nothing can hurt you so it doesn't really matter what order you do skills in as long as you have prot spirit up (which can be kept up indefinitely), and ample regen.

I stand by my viewpoint that this skill is getting hit eventually.

Kaida the Heartless · Jun 04, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Good god, man! Fourty-five seconds on Prot Spirit!? That would make the skill useless!

Prot Spirit is one of the most effective ways to deal with spikes in gvg. The 5 second recharge time is perfect and should be left as is. If anet really felt that this skill was overpowered, they would just throw some crazy degeneration or enchantment removal into over-farmed areas.

Prot Spirit is a staple, just like RoF, Distracting Shot, etc. Changing any of these skills will throw the balance into utter chaos!

TideSwayer · Jun 04, 2007, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Good god, man! Fourty-five seconds on Prot Spirit!? That would make the skill useless!

Yeah, some sort of compromise would have to be made to keep its usefulness in GvG, etc. (that's why I suggest upping the recharge time, adding a max health qualifier, etc.), but it's way too strong in PvE farming builds. The skill has 19 seconds duration at 12 Prot Prayers (not taking into account 20% enchantment mods, etc.) with only 5 seconds recharge time. It can be kept up indefinitely with any sort of energy management, and no farming build leaves home without said management.

I really doubt ANet wants people to take 10% of the damage 100% of the time. This skill needs some sort of downtime, somehow, or some way of reducing its power.

RbX · Jun 04, 2007, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Nerf PS and Hard Mode is no longer playable..thats a fact. If ANET really nerfs this very effective prot skill Hard Mode will become a mass grave for Ele/Ritu/Monk boss groups.

zwei2stein · Jun 04, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TideSwayer

Yes, the bots can run another build, but is any build as easy and safe as a 55/105 Protective Spirit-based build? With other builds there are usually random factors you have to take into account when farming, such as different spawns and timing. 55/105 builds are used by the bots because it's too "by the book". Nothing can hurt you so it doesn't really matter what order you do skills in as long as you have prot spirit up (which can be kept up indefinitely), and ample regen.

I stand by my viewpoint that this skill is getting hit eventually.

Bots really do not mind if there is required skill order or not, they can handle timing better than human. They have to take random factors into account anyway, regardless of build.

Seriously, there are more than enough builds ready to replace it.

Tab · Jun 04, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

A fairly simple solution would be to make it:
10 - 1/4 - 5
For 5...23 seconds, target ally cannot take more than 80...50 damage from a single attack or spell.

manitoba1073 · Jun 04, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

OMG will people ever stop with there damn botphobias. Its people like you that are ruining the game and not the bots.

Theres far more than just prot spirit soloing builds that a bot could run. It wont get rid of them. Sorry if you arent able to use it yourself.

TideSwayer · Jun 04, 2007, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

OMG will people ever stop with there damn botphobias. Its people like you that are ruining the game and not the bots.

Theres far more than just prot spirit soloing builds that a bot could run. It wont get rid of them. Sorry if you arent able to use it yourself.

I can't use Prot Spirit? I can't cast it over and over again? Wow.

I didn't bring the subject up because I'm worried about bots. I brought the subject up because maybe (just maybe) Protective Spirit is overpowered as a PvE farming skill since you can take 10% damage 100% of the time. Convince me it isn't overpowered (without relying on the 'well, it can be stripped!' argument). That's why I started the thread. I'm interested in hearing thoughts on this.

.defekt · Jun 04, 2007, 08:38 AM // 08:38

To be honest, I laughed pretty hard when I read what guild you are in, Tide.

45-60 second recharge? Do you play PvP? Do you notice that basically EVERY monk bar (or backline) has at LEAST 1 prot spirit? Making the recharge that high completely ruins the skill.

It's not the Prot Spirit that is the problem, it's the fact that when its paired with 55 health, it's an amazing skill. It's basically the only good prot for saving spikes (apart from SB), nerfing it will screw up more than just bot farming.

And anyways, I thought ANet were removing bot accounts?

Spazzer · Jun 04, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Prot Spirit can barely keep up with following the pressure as it is.

The game isn't balanced for solo play.

fenix · Jun 04, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by TideSwayer

It can still keep it's PvP usefulness with a larger recharge time and/or some sort of max health qualifier or something added into it. Bump that sucker up to 45 sec or 60 sec recharge time.

Baahahahahhahaha. You can't be serious. Why is it that PvErs always suggest retarded balances for skills? That's the most ridiculous change I've ever seen. 45 or 60 seconds? Are you serious? GvG's generally last 25 minutes, so I'd get prot spirit 25 times in the whole match? ARE YOU RETARDED? Stop complaining about bots, there's other ways to fix it aside from making stupid balance changes. This would NEVER get done. Ever.

Kale Ironfist · Jun 04, 2007, 08:51 AM // 08:51

If you really want to nerf it for farming, all you need is to do a Spirit Bond and add a hit counter. SB builds couldn't put it back up in two seconds, and even if they did, it didn't reset the hit counter, so they died anyway. Protective Spirit has a 5 second recharge, more than enough to get 10 hits in before it drops.

But ArenaNet isn't likely to change that, as there are plenty of farming builds that don't use it. Spirit Bond only got nerfed because it was so easy to make and impossible to kill, as it kept up with the number of hits, unlike traditional 55 monks, which could take only so much before expiring.

Roshi_ikkyu · Jun 04, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TideSwayer

Yes, the bots can run another build, but is any build as easy and safe as a 55/105 Protective Spirit-based build? With other builds there are usually random factors you have to take into account when farming, such as different spawns and timing. 55/105 builds are used by the bots because it's too "by the book". Nothing can hurt you so it doesn't really matter what order you do skills in as long as you have prot spirit up (which can be kept up indefinitely), and ample regen.

I stand by my viewpoint that this skill is getting hit eventually.

whoa i didn't think anyone could be more wrong in a single post!

And your claiming to be from a guild called farmers unite?!

WRONG
55 can be easy, but its the mob that makes the build easy.

WRONG
Different spawns effects bots much more then real farmers, bot can only be programmed to be so smart.

WRONG
Skills that assit PS are the most important part of a 55. PS doesn't make you invincible, Have u ever ran a 55?

WRONG
Ample regen.... ur kidding right? You seriously can't be the ignorant!

TideSwayer · Jun 04, 2007, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

whoa i didn't think anyone could be more wrong in a single post!

And your claiming to be from a guild called farmers unite?!

WRONG
55 can be easy, but its the mob that makes the build easy.

WRONG
Different spawns effects bots much more then real farmers, bot can only be programmed to be so smart.

WRONG
Skills that assit PS are the most important part of a 55. PS doesn't make you invincible, Have u ever ran a 55?

WRONG
Ample regen.... ur kidding right? You seriously can't be the ignorant!

Oh good god.

1) Yeah, different spawns affect bots more than real farmers. That's why bots traditionally stick to spots with static spawns. That's my whole point.

2) PS doesn't make you invincible? What? It's the base of the entire build. It's the max health level that makes you more or less hard to kill, but the PS enables that.

2) You are saying there isn't ample regen? Have you ever used Mystic Regen (the current bot favorite) with a 55 build? There enough regen to go around. If you are using a build without Mystic Regen it's usually because you are farming in an area without a need for ample regen in the first place (due to lack of degen). Hell, with a Shielding Hands/SoA 55 build you don't even need regen at all (assuming you stay away from degen-heavy areas), since you are taking 0 damage.

Yeah, I'm in a farming guild. So what? Is it the end of the world that I'm not considering Prot Spirit some sacred right of my Guild Wars experience? Protective Spirit can stop spikes. Fine. It can also stop 90% of damage 100% of the time. And it needs a way to stop being so powerful with low max health to keep it from giving players the 'invincible' effect. My whole point of this thread is that there's probably a way to do that and keep its usefulness for GvG & normal play.

.defekt · Jun 04, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05

WOULDNT A NERF TO PS COMPLETELY DESTROY YOUR GUILD?

O NOEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sophitia Leafblade · Jun 04, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Good god, man! Fourty-five seconds on Prot Spirit!? That would make the skill useless!

Pretty much, howelse are u gonna help reduce damage greatly in hardmode where every creature can single handily own the entire party, and some normal mode creatures too (eg. Ele and Rit Bosses in Factions etc.) If Prot was ever increased to that kinda degree Hard mode would go from Hard to Stupidly insane mode.

I doubt it would ever get nerfed there would be a considerable amount of complaints from PVPers and PvEers alike.

Prot Spirit is far from invincible as are 55monks, 1 necro or mesmer can take them out super fast. The easiest options of which are a simple blackout, daze or enchant shatter and such skills.